#172 Steven Hail: Bond Vigilantes! Inflation! The National Debt! The Excuseonomics Killing The Planet

The MMT Podcast with Patricia Pino & Christian Reilly

Patricia & Christian talk to economist and founder of the ground-breaking Modern Money Lab project Professor Steven Hail about the urgency of a swift and just transition to a sustainable economy and examine some of the excuses politicians selectively employ to avoid policymaking as if people and the planet matter.

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All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643

All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767

Order the Gower Initiative’s “Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers” (2023): https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html

LIVE EVENTS!

• Details of the MMT Summer school in Poznań, Poland (September 5th-7th): https://fundacjalipinskiego.pl/wydarzenia/mmt-3rd-summer-school-in-poznan/
• Website of the 3rd International European MMT Conference (Berlin, September 9th-10th: https://www.mmtconference.eu/
• To attend James K. Galbraith’s Keynote Lecture, (June 15th, 2023, 1-2:30pm ET) RSVP at the bottom of this page: https://edi.bard.edu/events/

Relevant to this episode:

• All our episodes with Steven Hail: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43083051
• Find out more about Modern Money Lab courses and “Rethinking Capitalism” events here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/events/
• Our two-part interview with Steven explaining the terminology and the mechanics of government bonds: Episode 30 - Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 and episode 31 - Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
• Steven mentions Warren Mosler’s view on interest rates, and how central bank base rate rises likely have an inflationary bias. For more on that listen to Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513
• For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683
• Steven mentions the dubious theory that interest rate hikes fight inflation by creating an expectation that inflation will fall (I know, right?) Turns out expectations converge to reality, and not the other way around, as L. Randall Wray explains in episode 163: Breaking Banks - The Fed’s Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true

For an intro to MMT:

• Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318

Quick MMT reads:

• Warren’s Mosler’s MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/
• Steven Hail’s quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095
• Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: “Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It”: https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/

For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler’s “7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy” here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf

Episodes on monetary operations:

• Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318
• Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887
• Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683
• Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183
• Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929

Episodes on inflation:

• Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508
• Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678
• Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835
• Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379
• Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What’s Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558

Our Job Guarantee episodes:

• Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701
• Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543
• Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346
• Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva’s Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/

More on government bonds (and “vigilantes”):

• Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245
• Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
• Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true
• Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421
• Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513
• Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true

More on Silicon Valley Bank and bank runs:

• Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true
• Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed’s Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true
• Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true
• MMT founder Warren Mosler’s Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html

MMT Events And Courses In 2023:

• More information about Professor Bill Mitchell’s MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/
• Apply for Dr Dirk Ehnts’ Modern Monetary Theory and European Macroeconomics course at Maastricht University (July 31st - August 4th) here: https://maastricht.dreamapply.com/courses/course/183-modern-monetary-theory-and-european-macroeconomics
• Details of Modern Money Lab’s online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/
• Details of the MMT Summer school in Poznań, Poland (September 5th-7th): https://fundacjalipinskiego.pl/wydarzenia/mmt-3rd-summer-school-in-poznan/
• Website of the 3rd International European MMT Conference (Berlin, September 9th-10th: https://www.mmtconference.eu/

MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies

MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship

A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757

We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos

Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/84572294?pr=true