1 | Making Space for Creativity with Elizabeth Gleeson

Through The Creative Door

Alexis chats with muralist and fine artist Elizabeth, whose bold patterns and vibrant colours have transformed walls worldwide. From her largest mural in Japan to cherished personal commissions, Elizabeth shares how she balances large-scale projects with meaningful personal work.

Hear her candid insights on overcoming challenges, monetising creativity, and finding self-worth through art. Whether it’s sentimental socks or playlists fuelling her process, Elizabeth’s journey is a powerful reminder to embrace boldness and beauty in every creative step.

If you’d like to see more, you can follow Elizabeth on instagram; @ elizabeth.gleeson.artist

This episode was recorded on 13 October 2024 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

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Creative resources from Elizabeth Gleeson:

The Creative Act: A Way Of Being by Rick Ruben

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CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

00:09 - Alexis (Host)

Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. Owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door.

Hello Elizabeth, how are you?

00:53 - Elizabeth (Guest)

Yeah, I'm good. I'm doing great.

00:55 - Alexis (Host)

I am super chuffed to be here with you. Welcome to Through the Creative Door. You are such a talented bear. Oh, my goodness, you do the most stunning murals. How would I describe it? They're like intricate patterns. Is that the best way to?

01:20 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah, that’s a good start. All of my work is really patterned and over the last couple of years I've really embraced colour in a really bold and vibrant way. So it's become an integral part of my work, but yeah, it's always patterned.

01:33 - Alexis (Host)

It's just stunning, and of course, I mean you do other fine artwork as well, but that's definitely like your footprint is these beautiful murals.

01:44 - Elizabeth (Host)

I do the fine artwork, but I will often use the actual artwork design as a mural as well. So once I've completed a fine artwork, that will also be available as a print for people to buy. Or I love, I love doing it like really big, really big scale as well.

02:03 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, what's the biggest that you've done to date?

02:07 - Elizabeth (Host)

Good question, because I've just come back from a working holiday in Japan where I created my largest mural to date on the front of an 8.5 metre high building. So, yeah, that's the biggest, for sure.

02:23 - Alexis (Host)

How are you with heights?

02:24 - Elizabeth (Host)

Totally fine. Totally fine, and this was a scaffolding job, so there's four levels of scaffolding. There was a team of four of us which was just so fantastic, and scaffolding makes things really really easy. Yeah really accessible. Yeah, really easy.

02:43 - Alexis (Host)

How wonderful. Oh, I love it so much. Well, without further ado, first question; what does a creative space mean to you and why?

02:58 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah. So in terms of being able to create, I've always been completely comfortable wherever I am. So, whether I'm in a cafe or on the train, I'm totally fine to sketch anywhere and I love doing that. But a creative space in terms of going to the effort to designate a creative space so that might be in your home, like it is for me, and I share a beautiful studio with my partner or, if it's elsewhere, if you have a group studio or a studio on your own somewhere else I think that designating that creative space specially is about taking your art more seriously and having a more disciplined approach to your creativity, so I think it's really important.

03:54 - Alexis (Host)

Have you always had a designated space?

03:55 - Elizabeth (Guest)

I have, whether it's been like the lower level of a house, where it's like a little pokey space or a particular desk, but it's only been the last couple of years where I've had a studio space, like like I have now.

04:13 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, yeah beautiful. If you could give me one project or one piece of work that you are most proud of creating. Which one do you think it would be, and like, how did that come about?

04:36 - Elizabeth (Host)

I think I'd probably divert the question to be not so much about one particular work because, I could certainly name a few works that I'm incredibly proud of, um, but I would say that I'm probably the most proud of the style that I've developed, because because it's taken a number of years and it's taken a huge amount of believing in myself, which is quite new to me, actually.

05:12

So I think that, even though there's a whole heap of really beautiful influences that I draw on that you know come through my work, it's still, at the end of the day, very me and it's become really recognisable. People recognise my work. They can tell when it's like, absolutely that it's, that it's one of my pieces, and I think that that process of developing a style that I'm really proud of, I think it's really beautiful, beautiful and I feel just so fortunate that it seems to really resounds with other people. It mirrors my own kind of inner journey of doing a whole heap of work to develop my, my self-worth and my self-confidence over, say, say, the last five years, yeah. So having this style that I now kind of sit with and work with and love creating, yeah, is a real reflection of kind of a lot of the inner growth that I've done as well as a person.

06:18 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah.

06:18 - Elizabeth (Host)

I am really proud of that.

06:21 - Alexis (Host)

And so you should be. It's stunning, absolutely stunning, thank you, and so you should be. It's stunning, absolutely stunning, thank you. I guess that sort of leads a little bit into and morphs into the next question, which is what's something that's challenged your creativity.

06:37 - Elizabeth (Host)

oh God that's so easy.

It's time, oh really, okay, yeah, absolutely. I think. For a lot of years I had a really great office job, but it's really time consuming. I have three children and so all of the art that I was creating was needing to fit in between those small gaps, and that's really difficult when, as a creative person, you're kind of bursting with this desire and desire to create and it's a need and I know that you know what I'm talking about and when you're desperate to do that and have an outlet for it and you don't have enough time to do it, for it and you don't have enough time to do it, it leaves you feeling frustrated and unfulfilled. Even if you have a wonderful life and you're very, very fortunate and privileged, it still leaves something that feels like it's missing. So time has certainly been the biggest challenge for me, and I know that any parent could relate to that.

07:43 - Alexis (Host)

How do you think that you've been able to sort of manage or tackle that challenge?

07:50 - Elizabeth (Host)

I have a lot of energy.

07:54 - Alexis (Host)

Well, that hasn't changed.

07:58 - Elizabeth (Host)

And I don't really have much of an off switch. I kind of like and my partner can attest to this I just kind of like go full bore until I drop, and I'm not always very good at listening to my body and that can lead to burnout, and it certainly has um, but I, I can get a lot done. Um. So time, definitely a big one. But fast forward a few years to now, and I'm creating art as my full-time gig and I would say that a new challenge that I'm now facing is more of a financial nature.

08:34

So, as you would well know that, when you start monetizing your creativity, it can open up a whole can of worms, and I'm sure it's like you could do a whole podcast episode on just that alone. For sure, but for me, what it can it often mean, where it becomes a real challenge is that and it. I'm sure it's not unique to muralists especially, but what it means in my case is that if you are stressed financially, you can end up saying yes to jobs that are smaller, so they're not as well paid, but they're still just as taxing in terms of your time and your energy. So financial is a huge challenge and I'm sure that there's not anyone that wouldn't be able to agree with that. That is monetising their creativity.

09:45 - Alexis (Host)

And yeah the money and being able to monetise and yeah, be able to pick the skill sets and being able to say yes to certain things and to say no. And yeah, he brought that up as well. Yeah, and yeah just trying to manoeuvre that. So, yeah, I think not just, like you said, not just mural artists, I think we can all relate. Yeah, I for one can relate as a musician. Yeah, yes, tough landscape, but we push forth.

10:11 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah, ideally I'd like to be doing mainly just really big jobs and then doing the smaller jobs in between because I actually really love them. They're often private commissions and they're for families, or I often have a lot of single women that commission me to do murals on their houses or something like that for them privately, and the relationships that are developed I really cherish. Yeah, no, I really love them. So I wouldn't want to stop doing those smaller jobs because they're really fulfilling in their own way, but it does kind of create its own challenges.

10:55 - Alexis (Host)

Have you ever painted a van?

10:58 - Elizabeth (Host)

No, I haven't. But I was having a discussion with a friend yesterday about the possibility of painting his car. Good old Camry, it's like an old beast that's on its way out and he's like, well, well, we may as well. so yeah

11:11 - Alexis (Host)

Okay, so this is gonna be an interesting one. I'm curious is there an object that you can't live without when you're creating? Like maybe it's like a sentimental thing or I don't know lucky pair of socks.

11:32 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah, yeah, sure, actually, on mural jobs. There's a pair of socks that I always wear On my first day. Yeah, it wasn't actually the answer that I had prepared for this, but it's a pair of socks that my mother-in-law knitted for me for my birthday and I love them and I always wear them on the first day of painting a mural. I don't think she actually knows that.

11:52 - Alexis (Host)

I love that little factoid. This is fantastic.

11:55 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah, but usually it's my headphones, because I love listening to music.

12:02 - Alexis (Host)

Have you got any particular artists?

12:10 - Elizabeth (Host)

Artists I really love. I've been on a complete Tori Amos bender recently and you can always often tell what I've been listening to on a particular mural job because I'll often use that as like my mural reel backing on my socials, so you can often tell Okay very well, but I also really love podcasts, often tell okay, but I also really love podcasts, um.

12:34

yeah, I mean, I find headphones really essential because music is um brilliant at helping you, uh, find a mood that you're after, whether you want to be inspired, whether you need to self-soothe because you need to calm down, um, or whether you want to get really pumped up, um and they're also really good when you have children and you need to focus.

12:52 - Alexis (Host)

Try and block them out. Is that what you? Yeah?

12:55 - Elizabeth (Host)

yeah, no, absolutely. But I often find that if I'm kind of through the real nutting out phase of the composition of a work and I'm into that kind of really lovely easier painting, stage, stage, if I'm in the studio, um, I switched to podcasts because then you can kind of feed your brain and take stuff in, because you're not actually trying to nut stuff out.

13:19 - Alexis (Host)

yeah, what is uh your top five podcasts?

13:23 - Elizabeth (Host)

oh, top five. I'll give you a solid top three, okay, well.

13:28 - Alexis (Host)

I'll take it.

13:29 - Elizabeth (Host)

I'll say yours, I'll have to say yeah, my, my favorite podcast over the last um couple of years has been Bench Talk. Bench Talk is a podcast that's hosted by Australian visual artist Tom Gerrard and he himself interviews creatives from actually all over the world. He's traveled a lot and he has got a lot of connections and he's it's wonderful the way he kind of really does, you know deep dives and often asks a similar kind of questions across. And you listen to all of the different kind of podcast episodes and when you hear so many people answer similar questions in a completely different way, it gave me license to realize that I don't have to fit a particular mould.

14:29 - Alexis (Host)

Everyone's tapestry and story is totally different.

14:33 - Elizabeth (Host)

Yeah it really is. So it's actually quite life-changing really listening to that, and also recently I've been listening to the Imperfects.

14:42 - Alexis (Host)

How great is that I love them so much.

14:46 - Elizabeth (Host)

Me too. I was pleasantly surprised. I was a little bit hesitant when I thought I listened to a podcast hosted by three men and they completely surprised me and I have so much respect for the topics that they cover and the guests that they get in who are so smart and so full of wisdom and beautiful insights, and so, yeah, they've been my favourite, and I say any others and that I probably flip around a lot. Yeah, I really like my sleep hypnosis podcast. Sleeping's not my strong suit.

15:26 - Alexis (Host)

If you could give one piece of wisdom, one nugget of advice to another, creative, another human being what would it be?

15:41 - Elizabeth (Host)

So, yeah, certainly, and what I do have to say comes from the perspective of building an art career in order to create an income from it.

15:56

I think that, as creatives, a lot of us are incredibly good at being multi-disciplinary. A lot of us are creative octopuses and we can very happily just flit around all different kinds of things, and it makes us so happy and so fulfilled. But I think that that can be a bit more of a curse than a blessing. If you are trying to build an audience and if you want to build an art career and make an income from it, you do need an audience, and so I think it's really important to have the discipline to focus on one or two mediums and develop a style and stick with it pretty solidly for a while, because otherwise it can be. It can be confusing if you're building an audience and I just don't think that you can do it otherwise.

I can give you a bit of background on why I feel quite strongly about that in terms of my own backstory, if you like. Yes, please, yeah, okay. So my my backgrounds initially in costume and fashion, and creating through pattern making and sewing was my absolute passion for most of my life and that's how people knew me. Certainly. However, I think was about five years ago. I'd already really started kind of getting into what I was doing. I loved it, but I made a very conscious decision to focus on the drawing, inking, painting of this these command, dallas that I was creating and really pursue that with, pursue more of a mature, disciplined approach, and I'd found this kind of type of drawing that I was doing. I'd started drawing these mandalas really really compulsively in a period of really intense grief about seven years ago, and I was really fascinated with the idea that a mandala is, these repeating segments and the finished results just always so beautiful. But the crux of it is that one section can be quite simple and when you take in really interesting elements that aren't necessarily so traditional in terms of the more kind of, when you think of a mandala being more Indian, tibetan, those, those kind of styles, I really loved that. But I really liked that you could put a bit of twist on it by bringing in like influences, like I really love the art decco and the Art Nouveau period and I am a huge fan of classic architectural design and I was incorporating all those kind of elements of quirky villages and all of these very kind of Art Nouveau style shapes in these mandalas essentially.

And I got invited to do just a small solo exhibition of these, these works just on paper, and I inch them up and I was doing this mandala on the lounge room wall at home and someone invited me to come and do a mandala was more kind of traditional style on their yoga studio wall of their business and everything kind of grew from there.

19:36

And I think it was at that point that I realized that of all the avenues that I could pursue, if I am quite serious about wanting to have an art career at some point that could sustain, sustain me financially, that I was going to need to make a bit more of a commitment and I decided that that was the direction that I was going to go in. And I was just so fascinated by this kind of phenomenon of creating sections and repeating and reflecting them and something that was simple became beautifully complex and detailed and at the same time, something that didn't make any sense on its own became it was like chaos would become ordered within these mandala type drawings that I was doing. So I found it very fulfilling as a direction to pursue, but after some time I started realizing that it was. It was a lot more to it for me and, in terms of I wanted to level up, I I met my partner, who is the most incredible artist that I've met, and I think I really wanted to impress him And-.

21:01 - Alexis (Host)

Well, nothing beats striving upwards. It'll put a cracker off anyone. It's fantastic, inspiring.

21:10 - Elizabeth (Host)

And I had all these kind of beautiful ideas that were in my head and I was literally dreaming about them at nighttime and I finally managed to bring this image of what I wanted my art to look like, building on everything I'd already created, and I managed to get it out on paper, where it was far more kind of William Morris, mixed with art nouveau, mixed with folk art, and it was really botanical and interweaving vines, and I realised that I had done it and this was what I wanted to do and this was kind of the style I wanted to create, continue to create and to develop, uh, for however long. This made me so happy and as soon as I tapped into that and was creating that, uh, things just really started, yeah, taking off. For me, it's like you know so, when you tap into something that's asking to come through and those things happen, it's just like solid, oh yeah, it's like solidified, yeah, yeah.

22:17

It's just, I was where I needed to be creatively yeah.

22:22 - Alexis (Host)

Got an extra question for you. If someone wanted to do what you do or develop their creative process, have you got any advice on what resources or like so? Books or courses or?

22:44 - Elizabeth (Host)

As a resource, and you probably had a few people say this to you. But there's that wonderful book, the Creative Act by Rick Rubin, which is just. It's such a staple for creatives because of how wonderful it is. It's really good at stripping back any of those kind of and reminds you to create for you you know, not for anyone else, not for a market to create for you, because that's where the actual magic is. And he's really good at talking about your creativity like a privilege that's bestowed upon you and if you do have that, you need to honor that and this is how you honor it.

23:37

And he's got great tips if you're feeling blocked or if you're just keen to kind of find out where your creativity can go in terms of, like, exploring it right, getting right into the corners and expanding it and growing it further. So that's a really good resource as a book. You can listen to it as well. I think that if you can do little courses, it would be really great connecting with other creatives. Connecting with other creatives where you're doing something similar and you can nut stuff out together and find out that you're not at all alone in what you're trying to do is just so essential, because nobody is, but we think that we are. We all think the same thing and it's like it doesn't need. It doesn't need to be that hard.

24:23 - Alexis (Host)

Uh, getting a mentor is a really great idea have you got any advice to someone how they would tackle trying to find a mentor?

24:31 - Elizabeth (Host)

yeah, there's quite a few courses going around now. I've been part of a mural nomad business program, which has been really wonderful, and my partner's been part of the art Academy Pro I think it's called, actually with Tom Gerrard, yeah, and his wife, Claire Bradshaw. It's really wonderful, not just for muralists or creatives. So those are two really good ones to start with. Even jump on Facebook groups of people who are doing similar things and you'll just find there's a whole world of people out there who are struggling for the same things and it's just, yeah, such a good resource and I don't know you can start.

25:16

Maybe this is a little, I don't know if it's a helpful thing to offer up, but having developing your own resilience, to be determined to put your own style out there, I just think is the most important kind of internal resource that you can have, because there's nobody else that can create what you create and we go through uni or well, some of us don't, but we, we grow up and we want to create and we want to and we look at all these people who are doing it successfully and it can be a real trap to think that in order to be successful ourselves, we need to emulate their style or the way that they've done it, or be like someone, but but what they're doing is they're just being themselves, and they're being uniquely themselves because only they can do it, and it's just the same for yourself, whether you've got the confidence to or not. It's it's. It's something that's really important to work on, because until you are committed to expressing yourself without trying to be anyone else, your own completely unique voice and perspective can't come through.

26:41 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, well said, bloody well said. Resonate with that. So much so so much. One last question if you could hear anyone come on this podcast and answer these questions, who would it be and why?

26:59 - Elizabeth (Host)

I would absolutely say my partner, Gerard Rousseau. He's just such a dedicated artist. He's so incredibly talented and has been the biggest influence in my own art career. In addition to creating incredible charcoal sketches and the occasional sculptural work, he creates these illuminated copper works that you can see around us. But if I'm not allowed to say him, I will. I will say there's a Melbourne street artist, fine artist Mandoline. I don't know if you're familiar with her or her?

27:34 - Alexis (Host)

No, but I'm excited to go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah.

27:39 - Elizabeth (Host)

So she creates paper, cut fine art, sculptural works and paste ups and is just a really beautiful muralist with sprawling botanicals. Her kind of the crux of a lot of what she creates is about the concept of rewilding. So those kind of little weeds that kind of come into city life when we try and keep everything really sanitized and clean and neat and she just finds the magic in those little bits that kind of come in and I just I find something so pure about her practice and the way she's just really focused on on what she does and the way that she delivers it. Um, and she quite literally is making the world a more beautiful place, which is just really nice too. So she's really humble.

28:33 - Alexis (Host)

Amazing she's the package. Oh, I love it. Yeah, oh, my goodnesElizabeth Gleeson,on, what a joy this has been chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for coming on through the creative d.

thank you for having me. 28:48 - Elizabeth (Guest)

Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it. e.

28:Tt thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom, forward slash through the creative door or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favorite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye.