#36: Interview with Giovanni Rocco, the Deep-Cover Agent Who Infiltrated the DeCavalcante Crime Family

The Gangland History Podcast: An Organized Crime & Mafia History Podcast

We talk with Giovanni Rocco, a former deep cover agent for the FBI, is responsible for taking down the American Mob organization commonly referred to by the media as “The Real Sopranos.”

During Operation Charlie Horse, Giovanni infiltrated the DeCavalcante crime family based in New Jersey and personally gathered enough evidence to prosecute and convict several high-ranking members and associates of the crime family. This action, while bolstering his legend in the undercover world, ultimately led to early retirement and the relocation of his family.

During his decades-long career as an undercover for the federal government, he successfully infiltrated outlaw motorcycle gangs, domestic and international terror organizations and the Mafia. Drawing from his service in law enforcement in various positions, Giovanni now shares his expertise with law enforcement, military and intelligence units worldwide.

More recently, he has become the host of the show, “Inside the Life” along with co-host Dutch McAlpin, produced by The Mob Museum, where they give listeners a one-of-a-kind look into the inner world of organized crime, featuring guests who have lived on both sides of the law.

In addition to his work as a subject matter expert and host of a successful YouTube show, Giovanni is also an author. He released his autobiography entitled, “Giovanni’s Ring: My Life Inside the Real Sopranos” released in February of 2021. I’ll leave the link in the description of the episode, and if you’d like, you can get a signed copy from Giovanni himself. Definitely a must have book for your collection.

Giovanni’s experiences have been featured in The Washington Times, the New York Post, and more.

This is his story in his own words.

Episode chapters and timestamps:

00:00 Start

01:27 Opening Remarks

03:36 Interview Begins

04:38 Growing up in Bayonne, New Jersey

06:40 Influence of the Mafia in Bayonne

08:32 Giovanni's family and upbringing

12:09 The influence of violence and the draw of the streets

16:03 Going from "Black Sheep" to becoming a police officer

18:28 The importance of the law enforcement oath

21:06 Giovanni's early law enforcement career

24:09 Working in extremely violent areas of New Jersey

27:35 Dealing with fear on the job

29:56 Were neighborhoods safer when the mob was in control?

31:47 Becoming an undercover operative

33:26 Undercover work and the element of truth

37:10 Physical tells and how they may betray an undercover operative

39:38 Balancing relationships and family life with undercover work

45:55 Introducing Giovanni Gatto (the alter ego)

48:50 The art of evasiveness

50:45 'Operation Charlie Horse' begins

55:19 Meeting Luigi 'Lui the Dog' Oliveri, alleged made member of the DeCavalcante Crime Family

55:52 Getting an introduction to Charlie 'The Hat' Stango, Capo in the DeCavalcante Crime Family

57:08 Getting to know Charlie 'The Hat' Stango

59:06 How 'Operation Charlie Horse' progressed

01:00:00 The Mafia's approach to vetting Giovanni

01:04:35 Walking the legal line as an undercover

01:06:09 Facing dangerous situations as an undercover

01:08:20 Nearly getting caught by The DeCav's

01:13:10 Nearly getting caught, the infamous bridge story

01:16: 15 Nearly getting caught, the soccer game

01:17:12 The end of 'Operation Charlie Horse'

01:18:41 Giovanni gets a contract to kill

01:20:40 The leadership of the DeCavalcante Family during Giovanni's undercover work

01:21:58 The possibility of faking a 'hit'

01:24:40 Early retirement and beginning work with training and development for law enforcement and military personnel

01:32:45 Doing the 'Inside the Life' podcast for The Mob Museum

01:39:25 Closing remarks