David interviews Blair about his new book, which lays out his proven framework to boost closing ratios and average proposal values for any B2B service provider. Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair EnnsAv David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.Av David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David unpacks six principles that can help creative firms benefit from delivering strategic guidance through their account managers. LINKS "Account Managers and Strategy" by David C. Baker at punctuation.comAv David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees four common behaviors when business owners are looking to get deals moving in times of economic decline, stagnation, or uncertainty that end up doing long term harm to their positioning and pricing. LINKS "Four Ways to Commodify Your Offering" by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com "Phase Your Client Engagements" 2Bobs episode…

Every few years we’re told that we need to move on from using email newsletters as a part of our marketing platform. And David says that advice has always been wrong. Links David’s article on Punctuation.com (subscribe to his newsletter at the bottom of the page) “Email is the Most Consistent, Reliable Marketing Channel on the Web and I Can Prove I…

David provides some clear examples of what is required for a firm to be successful at offering one service for many different verticals. Links “Strengthening a Weak Horizontal Positioning” by David C. Baker on punctuation.comAv David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong. LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.com…

David shares his decision-making framework that will help agency principals make better decisions during chaotic times like these. LINKS “Leading in a Chaotic World” article by David C. Baker on Punctuation.comAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Pricing is a prison cell of our own making. And it’s cultural. Blair has come up with a series of prompts as a creative exercise to help us all move into a realm of higher pricing. Links “Creating a Culture of Premium Pricing” by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com “Have we Hit Peak Strategy?” “Be the Client You Want to See in the World”…

David wants agency principals to develop new business plans which delivers more new leads with less labor so their organizations can have more controllable growth, as well as increasing their likelihood for a successful exit when that time comes. Links 2Bobs episode: “The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation” NY Times article: “How …

Blair thinks too many design firms and other service providers are trying too hard to raise prices by presenting themselves as more “strategic.” Both he and David see these agencies losing more and more work to competitors moving to off-shore teams and AI centered services. Links Blair’s “What Is Strategy?” episode of the Ditching Hourly podcast wi…

David definitely doesn’t want anyone to be like tech bros, but he has recognized a few things creative agencies might be able to learn from them.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair has five steps creative agency leaders can take to turn their account managers, project managers, developers, engineers, and advisors into a source of instant scale to their sales efforts. LINKS “Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team” article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.comAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Whether you call yourself an advisor or consultant (or not), David has seven core ethical principles that should govern advisory work. LINKS "Advising Clients Ethically" article on Punctuation.comAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

The fact that sales people tend to talk too much is nothing new, but Blair has observed in recent client work just how profound of an effect this pervasive problem has on sales outcomes. Links “How and When to Talk About Your Firm” “Replacing Presentations With Conversations”Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

When it comes to qualifications for ideal clients, David doesn’t hear anyone talking about how agencies can benefit when the person across the table is someone who presses boundaries and ethically skirts the rules within their own organization.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

As Blair is finishing his new book that drops later this year, he comes to the realization that pretty much everything he does comes down to the fundamental issue that experts think they need to show up as a different person during the sale: pitching, persuading, and convincing instead of as the leader their prospective clients need them to be. LIN…

While discussing eight ways creative firms can do pro bono work better based on an article David wrote recently, both he and Blair discover a couple new profound insights together. LINKS “Maximizing Your Pro-Bono Contributions” by David C. Baker at Punctuation.com Left-handed Mango ChutneyAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair recognizes how a Confucius quote is really bad business advice, but is still moved by how a highly principled creative firm in New Zealand continues to thrive by prioritizing their creative practices and client fit over new business strategy. LINKS "Attending the Way" article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com AltGroup.net…

David frequently gets hired to help resolve issues at firms between multiple principles when it comes to who does what and how much each should get paid, so he’s come up with a 7-point framework he can use in each unique scenario.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he takes a lesson from investing with compound interest to understand the increasing returns we can receive from our relentless pursuit of knowledge over time. Links “The Time Value of Knowledge” article on WinWithoutPitching.comAv David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David looks at the current data and weighs all the pros and cons of continuing to have staff who work from home in our post-pandemic economy, which makes Blair wonder if he would even survive if he was starting out in his profession today. Links “The Pros/Cons of Remote Work”Av David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees too many creative firms talking at prospective clients using sales scripts instead of having a series of wide ranging conversations on their unique issues and objectives that set the tone for the potential long-term engagement. Links “Ten Set Pieces” “Mastering the Value Conversation”Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair’s latest obsession is bounded rationality, in which he sees too many creative firms failing to make “rational” decisions because they choose to bind their businesses with outdated and overly-constraining ideals like the 80/20 principle. Links “The Great Convergence is Upon Us” by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching Award-winning “Unapologetic…

David shares his thoughts on some bad advice he hears involving the focus on pursuing personal passions in business.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair weighs in on this year's Forrester report, which shows the ridiculous amount of money agencies have been wasting on pitches. LINKS "Are These the Last Days of the Pitch?" by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching "A New Forrester Report Urges Brands and Agencies to 'Ditch the Pitch'" by Olivia Morley for AdWeek published on 4 A's…

David addresses another frequently asked question, looking at what creative firms should budget in terms of both money and time for their website, SaaS/automation, PR, content creation, and social media.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair identifies the differences between the ethics of selling expertise and the three schools of bargaining ethics, and what happens when we don’t adapt our bargaining approach to match our opponents in the game of negotiation. Links “The Conflicting Ethics of Selling & Negotiating” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com…

In an era of rapid turnover and remote working arrangements, developing a structured onboarding process for new staff is more important than ever. David has a checklist to help agencies get their new employees up to speed as quickly as possible.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees non-standard payment terms as a two-sided issue, where agencies should be creatively leveraging terms more to their own benefit as opposed to just defending themselves against procurement departments who impose onerous terms. LINKS "Payment Terms, On Your Terms"Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

While analyzing data from his Total Business Reset surveys, David has noticed five significant trends which principals should be aware of to run their firms more effectively, as well as one thing your team wishes you’d stop doing.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

As a follow-up to the discussion in the previous episode, Blair has some criteria for firms that would beneift from prioritizing and codifying an effective referral strategy as a way to gain new business. LINKS “The Best Referral Machine I Have Ever Seen”Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

In part one of a two-part discussion about developing a business referral strategy, Blair is surprised to hear that David wants to cover how and why we can get better at giving away business, before talking about how to get more referrals.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair runs through one of his constraint driven exercises with David by having us imagine running our business with nobody dedicated to the various functions under the banner of new business.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David has observed six common characteristics of agency principals that can affect whether or not their business succeeds.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Even after understanding and trying to adopt the philosophies from Win Without Pitching, Blair sees many creative firms struggling to increase profit because of these six obstacles involving their people and processes. Links Mastering the Value Conversation The Complexities of Commission Culture Innoficiency in Your Agency The Enemy Within The Comp…

This is your intervention and David has some tough questions about the important decisions you should be making to manage and grow your creative firm. LINKS "The Four Types of Employees at Your Firm"Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David feels like project managers get a bad rap and has tried to raise their profile within creative firms. So he’s gathered a list of traits from the best project managers he’s met in the hundreds of agencies he’s worked with over the years. Links “Understanding Account People”Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

A lot has changed since Blair wrote his article about seven mistakes he sees creative firms make with CRM years ago, and David wants to know why Excel isn’t a good tool for managing sales leads.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair has six challenges creative agencies face when it comes to being compensated for the actual value they generate for their clients.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David addresses how vertically positioned agencies can manage a client roster containing multiple companies who are competitors with each other.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair has been getting too much spam lately and sees an opportunity with warm leads that lies between inbound and outbound marketing which is not being mined well among the creative firms. Links “Inbound, Outbound & In Between” article on WinWithoutPitching.comAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair wants sales people to stop ranking proposal options in a way that assigns judgement for prospective clients without considering the many tradeoffs that need to be considered. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/the-perils-of-good-better-best-pricingAv 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair is confused by David’s mixed metaphors about creative agencies being able to sell strategy services up front, instead of entering through the implementation door with new clients and then trying to demonstrate how much more your firm can provide.Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Blair sees some creative firms as “black holes” where accounts go in and seemingly never come out, and others as “new business development machines,” consistently generating half of their revenue from new clients every year. Links “Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business?” “Churn, Baby, Churn”Av 2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

David has a brand new book, Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors: Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice. In it he reveals exactly how he manages engagements with his clients, and he’s nervous about how it will be received. Links Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors: Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice The Business of Expertise: How Entr…

Blair has talked many times on the podcast about how innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals, and after presenting his first keynote on the "Innoficiency Principle" goes deeper into this idea with David. Links “The Innoficiency Problem” “The Marketing Procurement Problem” The Google Cemetery “The Enemy Within” “The Complex Battle for…

David gets flack for his contrary perspective on how agencies shouldn’t necessarily aim for long-term client relationships. So he clarifies how he’s seen the the fear of both client and employee churn hold firms back. LINKS "Reboot Your Culture Through New Business" "Your Firm Should Be A Team—Not A Family" "The Problem of Standards" by David Maist…

Blair frequently tells his clients, “You reinvent the firm one new client at a time.” So looking ahead to the new year, he has five areas where principals can be looking to upgrade their agency’s culture through the next new client. Links Tim Williams, The Unscalable Business Model Jim de Zoete, Don't Pitch Your Mental Health Maintaining the Expert…

Have your firm's managers been promoted based on technical proficiency and status, or was it because of their self-awareness and critical thinking? David shares why he sees so many poor managers in the creative firms he's worked with, and then lists what he looks for in great team leaders. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/p…